Did Abraham Live to See Jesus?

Tom:

We are continuing in the Gospel of John and right now we are in John:8:51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
See All..., “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”Now Dave, two points about this.When Jesus says “verily” it’s important.When he says “verily, verily” it’s very important, but wait a minute!“If a man keep my saying he shall never see death.”Dave, people die all the time.

Dave:

Does that mean that this is teaching salvation by works?Well part of his sayings is, “He that hears my word,” we had it in John 5, “and believes on him that sent me has everlasting life.”He’s promising everlasting life to those who will believe on him so keeping his saying would be to believe on him.We had that back here earlier in this chapter.“If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed.”So we have to take all of what Jesus has said.And the next one, “he will never see death.”Well, you could weasel out of it by saying yeah, but no Christian ever lived a perfect life.That’s why they all die.But that’s not what it’s talking about.“He shall never see death,” no, I just started to quote John:5:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
See All..., “…shall not come into condemnation, but has passed from death unto life.”Or when we get to chapter 10, “I give my sheep eternal life, they will never perish.”Well then what about people dying?Well he’s talking about real death, spiritual death, which is separation from God forever, they will not see that.Their physical body will die.

Tom:

Yes.Dave, let me throw this in.If a man is born once, he dies twice.If he’s born twice, he dies only once.

Dave:

Very good Tom, that’s pretty profound.

Tom:

I got that from Sunday school, from my kid at Sunday school class.That’s a good one.

Dave:

Really?

Tom:

Yes.

Dave:

You better explain that.

Tom:

Well he didn’t explain it to me Dave.

Dave:

Well if he’s born once, he dies because Revelation 20 talks about the second death.That’s being cast into the Lake of Fire.Well, you know that Tom.I’m just jumping in here.So there is a second death for those who have only been born once.If they’ve been born again, then they only die once.And that isn’t really death.We don’t really see it because it is absent from the body, present with the Lord.I think it’s instantly we are gone from this life into the presence of our Lord.

Tom:

Yes another wonderful promise of God’s Word.

Dave:

Fantastic!“Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?”

Tom:

Dave, two things here:these men were blinded by their own flesh, by their own sinful nature.But for us as well, they didn’t understand, again because of their blindness, but also as you said earlier, in all that Jesus said before would lead them up to understanding, if they were willing to understand.

Dave:

But remember Tom, many of the Jews of today especially do not believe in the resurrection.Remember the Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection.So they have a rather strange idea about death.Whereas David, remember when he’s praying for this baby that he had with Bathsheba; their first born; a product of their sin.When he’s crying out—it’s ill and he’s fasting in fact and praying for healing for this baby.And then the servants are afraid to tell him that the baby is dead.Why if he was mourning and weeping and pleading with God when the baby was sick, what’s he going to do when he finds out it’s dead?And as soon as David was told that the baby was dead, he washed himself, put on his clothes, took off his mourning garments and they couldn’t understand it.And he said, well he won’t come back to me, but I will go to him.So David certainly knew that.In Job, the oldest book of the Bible, Job says, “I know that my Redeemer liveth and that he will stand in the last day upon this earth and though worms destroy this body, in my flesh I will see God.”So it was there all through the Old Testament for them to understand, but they think when you’re dead, you’re dead.“Abraham is dead, the prophets are dead, who do you think you are saying if people keep your saying you will never see death.Whom makest thou thyself?Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.”This is a pretty tough exchange going on here Tom, between Jesus.And these are not, I don’t think primarily rabbis.He’s pretty tough on the rabbis.

Tom:

And this is no philosophical view, this is not argument or disputation just—Jesus is just setting the record straight.

Dave:

Right.You see the difference in how he deals with the woman at the well and then how he deals with the religious hypocrites.He rips them apart and leaves them bleeding from every pore.But he’s getting pretty tough on these common people here, too.“You don’t know God, if you knew God, you would know that I am telling you the truth.You claim that this is your God, but you don’t even follow his teachings.”And now listen to verse 56, it’s getting to be too much for them: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.”It’s very interesting because I believe that Abraham was saved and we are saved.The Holy Spirit had not come.He was not born of the Spirit into the Church, 1 Corinthians 12.But Abraham knew that the Messiah was coming.He looked forward to the crucifixion.The Old Testament saints looked forward to the Cross as we look back to it. “He rejoiced to see my day and he saw it.”So Abraham had some tremendous insights into the coming of the Messiah and he knew that the Messiah was going to die for the sins of the world.

Tom:

Dave, wasn’t it the same with Job?And many believe that the Book of Job—well he was one of the patriarchs.[It’s] one of the oldest books in the [Bible].

Dave:

Yes, I think it is, we think.And he said, “I know that my redeemer liveth.” Wow!Okay, it’s all through the Old Testament.

Tom:

Yes.The only thing we have better is that we have the Holy Spirit resident within us, but they were saved just as you said, just as we are saved, by faith, only by faith.

Dave:

Yes, they looked forward to it.But now the Jews are really upset.“You say Abraham rejoiced to see my day?He saw it and was glad?Aw, who do you think you are?Then said Jesus—

Tom:

Dave, before you get into that, there’s a progression here.I’m not saying that Jesus was trying to egg them on and so on, but you can see that he’s making a distinction here.“You do not understand.”And he keeps pressing it and he keeps pressing it and pressing it.

Dave:

Yes.Well, he is going to say something really profound to them now.Verse 57: “Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?”He didn’t say he’d lived back there with Abraham, but he said Abraham looked forward to his coming on this earth.(Verse 58) “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, (here you go, that “verily, verily” again) I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”Now Tom, they knew what he was saying.When Eloheim appeared to Moses at the burning bush (getting back to the Trinity now), Eloheim is a plural form for God.All through the Old Testament you have plurality and singularity, so it is Eloheim, Gods literally it means, appears to Moses at the burning bush.Moses says what is your name? Eloheim doesn’t say “we are that we are.”He says “I AM that I AM.”Yahweh which as you mentioned earlier, that means “I AM the self-existent One.No beginning and no end.”They knew that he was claiming to be Yahweh of the Old Testament.Wow!Before Abraham was not “I WAS, but I AM.I AM the ever existent One.” (Verse 59) “Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.”

Tom:

Yes, you see some of these things went right over their heads.But this—

Dave:

They got this one.

Tom:

They got this one!Big time.

Dave:

Well, remember verse 30: “As he spake these words, many believed on him.”So these now that take up stones, they had believed in him.They said they believed in him.They believed he was the Messiah, but they had a false view of the Messiah.It’s a problem today Tom.A lot of people call themselves Christians.They say, “Oh I believe in Jesus,” but they’ve never been willing to believe that he is God who became a man to die for their sins and that unless they receive him as their Savior, receive his sacrifice on the Cross, they are lost forever. They’ve got to face up to what Jesus said and who he is.