Did Jesus Come to Save Us, Condemn Us, Or Help Us?

Tom: We’re continuing with the gospel. We’re in the Gospel of John 17. And, Dave, from time to time we encourage our listeners, and I think it’s probably that time again, if you have not read the Scriptures—and the program is called Search the Scriptures Daily, that’s our exhortation and that’s our encouragement to you to read the Bible, and if you’ve not—if you’ve never read the Bible before, we think this is a good place to start, the Gospel of John. To the doctrines, to the deity of Christ, but most of all, the salvation—what He has done for us that we might spend eternity with Him—all there, in the Gospel of John.

We’re in John:17:25O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
See All...: “O righteous Father” (this is Jesus speaking), “O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee; but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name and will declare it, that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

Dave: Tom, this is old English, and in case any of our listeners out there are saying, “Come on, why don’t you read it in modern language?” Beautiful! This is Shakespearian English. If you grew up in Europe, you learned Latin and French and English—most of the Europeans speak English very well. I don’t see why Americans can’t learn a little bit of “old English.” It would help to educate them a bit. It’s beautiful language.

Tom: But it’s tough. It’s tough. I find myself stepping on my tongue more than not. Maybe I need some… (laughing)

Dave: Well, Tom, I was raised on it, so, maybe I have a little prejudice here. But I don’t care…but don’t, if…you see, that’s the problem with these paraphrases that we have, they don’t give a translation, but they give the idea of the person who’s doing it–what he thinks it meant. Well, that’s okay if you’re preaching a sermon. Give your idea! Exegete the Scripture. But at least leave the people with the Scriptures to check you out from like the Bereans checked Paul from the Scriptures. But if you make something, let’s say, like The Message, by Peterson, and you lead people to believe that this is the Bible, when in fact it is not the Bible, you have changed God’s Word and put your own in there. Then they don’t even have any way of checking up on you.

Tom: Well, here’s the scenario: there are many churches, that’s the Bible. Even though I don’t believe he’s done the Old Testament, so it’s just the New Testament, but right there it is, in your pew, and the preacher is preaching from it, and now I have the book, and I’m trying to be a Berean, and I’m saying, “Wait, wait a minute. He’s saying exactly what it says here.” But that’s not good enough. That’s not a literal translation. That’s still what Eugene Peterson had in his heart and mind one day.

And people think that we’re grinding on this, or complaining a little bit about it. We would recommend if you have access to The Message, just compare it with a more literal translation.

Dave: Well, let me give just one example: John:3:17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
See All... (We may have mentioned this before…”

Tom: We have, but go ahead…

Dave: …it’s so glaring. John:3:17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
See All... says, “God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.” That the world through him [through Christ] might be saved.

The Message says, “He came to help us to make the world right.” What?? Help us?

Tom: Sounds like deism.

Dave: It sounds like social/political action! We’re going to make this world right? No, this is about man’s eternal destiny! We’re going to call people out of this world to heaven, and it’s only through the sacrifice of Christ. It’s not “He comes to help us make the world right.” Never does the Bible suggest we’re going to make the world right. That’s just one example, Tom. That is changing what God has said and putting his own words in there, and in the process perverting it and corrupting it and giving people a wrong impression. Now if they think this is what God said, Wow! We’re in real trouble!

Tom: But, Dave, the other thing that concerns me, I’ve read through it. I have a copy of it. And many, many verses—humanistic! I mean, the emphasis, the focus—just as the one you read—is on man, it’s on humanity, not on God, which that’s the thrust of the Scriptures! So we have something that’s affecting people the way they think and the way they draw from something that’s supposed to be God’s Word but it’s not!

Dave: Yeah. So, anyway, we’re not pushing “King James Only,” here, but this is the King James we’re reading, and I think it’s a very good translation.

“O righteous Father,” wow! “Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.” God is righteous, and we are sinners, so it’s good to be reminded of that. “The world hath not known it.” And by “world,” He’s talking about unbelievers, the ordinary people out there. Oh, there’s all kinds of religions that claim to believe in God. In fact, the Hindus have got 300-and-some million gods. Buddhism is basically atheism, but Islam has a god, Allah. You mean this is not the God of the Bible? “They don’t know you?” Jesus said at the beginning of this same chapter, John:17:3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
See All...: “This is life eternal: that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” That’s the way He began His prayer. Now, He’s ending the prayer saying, “O righteous Father, the world hasn’t known you.” They need eternal life; they need to know the true God.

Tom: Dave, that is absolutely critical, it seems to me. The world doesn’t know Him. We need to know Him. That’s why we have God’s Word—it’s the revelation of who He is, and my concern, we were talking just a minute ago about The Message—when you have either Bible translations, or teaching, whether it’s psychology in the church, we are being more than weaned off God’s truth and God’s Word and diluted, but the world has come in, so now we have a skewed idea of who God is, and then how can we go about a life—we mentioned in an earlier segment, 2 Peter:1:3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
See All...: “All things that pertain to life and godliness.” Well, these are from God himself, things that please Him. And when we don’t know Him, but our focus is humanistic or on the world or trying to accommodate the world, or…we’re in trouble! Big time!

Dave: Well, we’re not only in trouble for this life, but we’re in trouble for eternity, because if we do not know the true God, we will be separated from Him forever. It reminds you of Romans 1, it says, “When they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; became vain in their imagination and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. They changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible beasts and creeping things,” and so forth.

So, you see, they created false gods, and Jesus is just pointing out the world doesn’t know who “You really are,” and then He says, “I have known thee, and these [‘My disciples,’ you know, that He’s praying for] have known that you sent me, and I’ve declared unto them thy name and will declare it.”

That’s interesting. “Thy name.” What is His name? Well, Moses asked that question in Exodus 3 when God said, “I’m sending you to deliver the people from Egypt.”

Moses said, “Well, they’re going to say who sent me? What is your name?” And God said, “Yahweh. I AM that I AM.” This is the self-existent one, and, Tom, sometimes I think about it, it is so staggering—we have to come back to this, but it’s so incredible—God, how did you get to be God? Who appointed You God? Where did You come from? A child asks that question. “Well, who made God?”

“I AM that I Am. The self-existent one. No beginning, no end, the existence of all others depends upon My existence.” This is the God who created us, who created the universe, and this is the one we must know. And we can only know Him through Jesus Christ.

Tom: God himself, who became a man...

Dave: Right.

Tom: Paid the full penalty for our sins