Does the World Need a Messiah?

Tom: Thanks, Gary. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him. We are and have been discussing Dave Hunt’s latest book Judgment Day! Islam, Israel, and the Nations. That’s what we’ve been doing, Dave, as you know, for almost 24 weeks now in this first segment of our program. 

Dave, you end chapter 13 by giving what you call “Hopeful Signs among Muslims Related to Terrorism.” Now, that comes after chapter after chapter of things that gravely concern us about what takes place in Islam. But now, what are these hopeful signs, and in what way do you think they are truly hopeful?

Dave: Well, Tom, let me explain, or remind our listeners (we may have some new ones), part of what we are talking about in this book is the fact that terrorism and what is happening in the world today—the horror, the Twin Towers going down, whatever it may be—this is not the work of a few fanatics or extremists, this is Islam. It comes out of Islam. You’re going to have to change Islam to change this, or Muslims will have to come up with some revisionist, modernistic view of Islam. 

Now, the West has been saying, “Islam is peace!” It’s the West that has been encouraging this lie. Since 9/11/01, the last figures I had, about 40,000 Americans had converted to Islam. The president continues to say, “It’s peace!” He just had the commemoration of Ramadan—you know, the feast that they have at the end of Ramadan, in which he again called Islam the faith of Abraham. He said Muslims follow the faith of Abraham. He said, “We’ve just now put a copy of the Qur’an in the White House library.” He called the Qur’an the word of God, and Muhammad a prophet of God. All right, so it has not been very encouraging. You are not going to stop terrorism by that means. And as we have mentioned, thousands (in fact, millions) of young boys in the Muslim world—Pakistan, Iran, wherever you want to go—are being taught to hate not only Israel, but the West, and they are being groomed to become homicide bombers, murderers, supposedly dying in jihad in order to gain entrance to paradise. And some of these young men, that’s all they dream of. Some of them live in very poor circumstances—poverty stricken, and under great oppression, and so forth, such as, for example, under the so-called Palestinian authority in Palestinian territory. Can you imagine what a dream this is, what a hope it is for them to—they could be catapulted right into paradise with hundreds—depending on the circumstances, it could be thousands—of dark-eyed houris, virgins, and tables a mile long with all the delicacies you could ever imagine. The rivers run with wine, which a Muslim is not allowed to drink in this life. Okay, so that’s the situation, all right?

Tom: Dave, let me just add to that: It isn’t just those who were living in situations of poverty, as you mentioned. They have found, whether it be in London, whether it be those who have gone from Saudi Arabia to Iraq, and so on—these are not individuals who come from poverty-stricken, but it’s the reward, the hope for just what you articulated: having the things that their religion refrains them, and actually condemns here on this earth, they are going to get in paradise, or that’s what they believe.

Dave: Yeah, we document in the book, for example, that none of the 19–15 of them were from Saudi Arabia, who brought down the Twin Towers—they did not grow up in poverty. Certainly Osama bin Laden and his right hand man Zawahiri, they did not grow up in poverty, but wealth. But there are millions out there who are growing up in poverty, and they are signing up. 

And we don’t have the same statistics for Iraq, for example. You can hardly believe what’s going on. We thought they had run out of suicide bombers, but there seems to be no end, because these are men who are coming in from Jordan, they are coming in from Iran. Many of them, you know, this is their only hope. Actually, it’s the only hope for any Muslim to get to paradise; you can’t be sure. Otherwise, you hope your good deeds will outweigh your bad, and that’s not a very great hope for most Muslims. 

Furthermore, Abu Bakr, Muhammad’s father-in-law, to whom Muhammad promised paradise without dying in jihad, he said even if he had one foot inside of paradise he couldn’t trust Allah; he might shove him out. And you never know what Allah will do, even if your good deeds outweigh your bad, okay? So to die in jihad as a so-called martyr is the big hope. 

But now there is a reaction in the Muslim world. First of all, Tom, there is a reaction in the West. You know, I have been praying for many years, probably 15 or more years, that God would expose Islam to the world. The horror of this, the evil of it! Imagine a god, Allah, who promises you paradise and all kinds of blessings for murdering innocent women and children. Get on a bus of school children, blow yourself up, and you get to go to paradise! Now, that’s horrible, and many Muslims are beginning to find this repulsive, to react against it. But first of all, in the Western world the attitude has been pretty much, “Well, these are fanatics, not much you can do about it.” 

But now we’re getting people in the West—not just a few people that have very small influence, such as myself…you and I on a radio program or in the books we write, but people that have a bigger influence. 

For example, I want to just quote the editor-in-chief of U.S. News & World Report, Mortimer B. Zuckerman, and he has been coming out with some terrific editorials, and he tells it like it is. Let me just quote what he says. This is in mid-2004—the editorial was titled, “Looking Evil Right in the Eye.” 

He said, “The grotesque cruelties leave no doubt about the enemy we are up against. The news of their horrific abductions and beheadings fly around the globe on technologies, in their twisted minds, invented by the infidel. The masked cowards pose with their helpless captives while presenting demands they know cannot and will be myth. Their purpose is manipulation, to increase the pain of the victim’s family and friends, to force Western governments to moderate their opposition to the terrorist networks, to panic foreigners into leaving Muslim lands. We are in their way as these misguided men seek to restore a new unified Muslim umma,” that is, a community, “ruled by a new caliphate. In other words, Muslims must rule the world, governed by Islamic law and organized to wage jihad against the rest of the world. 

“As for the Muslim world, which has bred this plague, it will have to decide: Who is the enemy? It can’t have it both ways: the indulgence of deriding the West, while tolerating the evil in their midst. It is outrageous that Saudi Arabia, home to 15 of the 19 September 11 murderers, has done virtually nothing to clean up its colleges of intolerance. We must persuade the Muslim regimes to condemn this new barbarism before it consumes them, too.” 

So then I give some examples. In the Muslim committee there’s a growing number of not only intellectuals—journalists, and critics, and so forth—but also of Islamic clergy who are expressing increasing embarrassment. You know, I’ve prayed for years, “God, embarrass these people.” There should be a cry of outrage from all over the world against this. And I’ve been shocked that it has not come sooner. But now it seems to be coming even from within the Muslim world. And, for example, on September 5, 2004, Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abd al-Aziz told senior education officials: “Watch your teachers. We want to serve the religion and the homeland, not terrorism.” 

Saudi Education Minister Mohammed Ahmad Al-Rashid said, “The Education Minister will in no way accept a teacher who holds misguided views that influence the younger generation,” and that “…any element implementing an extremist policy will be uprooted from the education system.” 

Well, they are mislabeling this “extremism.” But they’re trying to salvage a little respectability at the same time. It’s a bit of a step in the right direction. Tabuk District Governor Prince Fahd bin Sultan said in a September 12, 2004 speech to members of the Tabuk Educational Council: “It is unacceptable for one of us to disseminate extremism, fanaticism, terrorism, and apostasy.” 

So, Tom, at least—it’s a lie that this is extremism, that it is apostasy, but at least they’re getting embarrassed enough to say, “Oh, well, Islam itself does not advocate this sort of thing.” And we have a growing movement and an awaking, seemingly, in the Muslim world.

Tom: And, Dave, it’s to their own benefit. This isn’t just a matter of appeasing the West by altering or modifying their religion. As we pointed out week after week, Muslims are killing Muslims, you know, in incredible proportions. So it’s for their own protection as well. And, of course, many of the Islamic governments, those who are moderate, fear the more extreme, like the Taliban. And so, Dave, this is hopeful, but how far will it go?

Dave: I don’t know. But now, some Saudi columnists are gathering some courage. And let me just quote Mohamed Mahfouz, and he wrote in the Saudi Gazette—this is amazing: “The phenomenon of terrorism and violence we are facing is carried out by a group of brainwashed youth, influenced by glamorous slogans. In my opinion, any delay in fighting this ideological cultural battle against terrorism will drag our country into the abyss of [instability]. Our determination will pave the way for successfully dismantling the ideological and cultural structure that offers fertile ground for the proliferation of this phenomenon.” 

Now, Tom, on the one hand, they’re denying that this is Islam. In fact, Mohammed was a terrorist. Mohammed terrorized Arabia. Mohammed and his men, warriors, took over Arabia by the sword. And it spread from there all the way up, and just turned back just short of Paris and all the way to China. And we’ve talked about that in the past. These people slaughtered millions. Will Durant, certainly one of the best known historians, he calls the Islamic takeover of India the bloodiest story in history. They killed more than Hitler, okay? So this is Islam. This is what they’ve been doing. But now these men are trying to deny that. They’re trying to say, “Wait a minute, this is extremism. It shouldn’t be allowed. This is horrible.” 

So, Tom, the hopeful sign is even the Muslim world seems to be recoiling from the mayhem and murder that is being perpetrated in the name of Allah. What kind of a religion is this? And, as you mentioned, they’re killing one another, not just in Iraq, but in Pakistan. You know, a Sunni goes into a Shi’ite mosque and blows himself up, or a Shi’ite goes into a Sunni mosque, blows himself up. And each one claims they’re going to paradise and the opposition claim they’re not. So we’ve got some serious problems, and the fact that they are awakening to this…

Tom: Dave, you have a quote in here from an Islamic scholar—I’m not going to try and pronounce his name—but I think it’s amazing. Written in an Arabic newspaper, he writes an open letter to Osama bin Laden: “I would rather live in America under Ashcroft and Bush at their worst than in any Islamic state established by ignorant, intolerant, and murderous punks like you and Mullah Omar at their best.” You know, that’s amazing, Dave.

Dave: Pretty strong. They’ll go after him.

Tom: Yeah, right. The other thing is they recognize, just as you articulated at the beginning of our program, how Islamic youths are being brainwashed and indoctrinated in this.

Dave: In the Saudi Daily, Al-Watan, there’s another Saudi columnist Abdullah Nasser al Fozan, and he points out the hypocrisy of rabble-rousing imams who are encouraging the youth to blow themselves up, but they don’t have their own sons do that and they don’t do it themselves. And some of the questions he asks are rather interesting. 

He tells of a—I guess it’s a true story—he tells of a young Muslim who was told to go, he went on a mission to another area to kill a man that supposedly had turned his back on Islam, or at least was compromising. And he by chance meets the man—doesn’t know who he is—and the man befriends him. They become friends. And then the would-be killer, all he knows is the name of this man. So then when he’s made friends with this gentleman, then he says, “Do you know where so and so is, where I might find so and so?” 

And, well, that’s who this guy is, but he doesn’t say that. He says, “Why are you interested in finding him?” 

And… “Well, I’m on a mission to kill him,” and so forth. 

And the man asks the youth, “How are you so certain that this man is an atheist deserving of death, and that killing him will bring you paradise?” 

The youth responds, “Some sheikhs told me so.” 

Well, the man says, “Why don’t these sheikhs aspire to reach paradise themselves. Why are they giving up for your sake carrying out this honorable deed which brings one to paradise?” The youth was embarrassed. He says, “I don’t know.” It’s a good question. And so he goes on in this column to say the same question that the man asks the paradise-seeking youth could be addressed to the youth who blow themselves up in order to reach paradise influenced by the Fatwas, instructions of men who have gained their trust. 

“These people who hold sway over the minds of the youth have deceived them into thinking that what they are doing is an act of jihad that will bring them to paradise…. O, youth who seek paradise, where are your sheikhs when it comes to this honorable deed? Why are your sheikhs shirking jihad and not participating in your honorable mission?” 

Now, Tom, when you get articles like that in a Saudi newspaper and in newspapers in Egypt, and so forth, it has to cause people to begin to think, and it has to cause parents to begin to think a bit. We just had a situation, remember—it just happened—of a suicide bomber. Supposedly blew himself up, you know, over in Israel, but he didn’t take anybody with him, and his parents were shocked. They had no inkling that this was where he was heading. They didn’t know, and his brother said, “Well, he’s in paradise, but he’s not here. We miss him.” It just has to begin to have some effect. 

See, it’s not going to help—we’re not going to run them all down. Something has to happen within the Muslim community itself, and Muslims have to begin to recoil. 

Now, I know in some places—for example, in Iran, believe it or not, many Muslims are coming to Christ because they see the totalitarian control and the evil of what Islam really is. In Sudan, of course, many Muslims have come to Christ because they see the slaughter perpetrated by Muslims, the torture and the slaughter upon non-Muslims. So it’s going to take some reaction. And, Tom, unless you have been really brainwashed (and some of these people have), it’s pretty hard for a person with a normal conscience, a human being, not to recognize this is wrong; this is not right. So I just mention as a hopeful sign that some of the Western journalists are beginning to speak out against this, and so are some of the Muslim journalists, as well.

Tom: Dave, a couple of thoughts crossed my mind as you were talking: you know, Islam is a religion that man made up. So there can be influences for man to change, to modify. I mean, through history they’ve taken even the Word of God and modified those things to their own views, different religious organizations. But also within the heart of man is a conscience, and maybe these things, as you’ve been praying and as these things take place, they can redirect people. They can modify Islam, or better yet, deliver people from it.

Dave: It’s not going to be easy, Tom, because, you know, bin Laden just came out with an offer of peace, you know, to the United States. But you read it, and it’s horrific. It’s actually an ultimatum. But how does it begin? “In the name of Allah, the most merciful, gracious,” you know, and so forth. How can they keep saying that when Allah is really the one who is behind terrorism, who’s behind all the killings, because it’s his offer of paradise and wonderful rewards there that keep these paradise bombers at it? So we’re going to have to change a lot. I don’t know how you can revise, just revise the fact that Muhammad murdered people, the fact that Muhammad said Allah commanded him to fight against all people until they all confessed there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet. But anyway, Tom, as you said, things can happen. We’re praying and trusting the Lord, but there seem to be some hopeful signs of a move in the right direction.

Tom: Dave, next week we’re going to get into chapter 14, and that’s the only hope. The title of chapter 14 is “The World Needs a Messiah,” and that’s the only—well, until the Prince of Peace comes, there’s not going to be peace.