Has Revelation Already Happened?

CONTENDING FOR THE FAITH

In this regular feature Dave and Tom respond to questions and listeners and readers of The Berean Call.  Here is this week’s question:  Dear Mr. Hunt, Have you read the book, Before Jerusalem Fell? by Kenneth Gentry?  I am no scholar as Gentry appears to be, but he contests in a rather intricate and detailed manner that Revelation is pre 70 AD and thus qualifies and being predictive of this period.  His presentation is terribly complex.  Would you please comment?

Tom:

Preterism, boy, there’s a word, Dave.  You know, on the surface of it, it just seems like nobody could possibly ever believe this.  The idea being that, depending on how strong a preterist you are, it could mean that all the prophecies in the Bible, right up to chapter 20 of the book of Revelation have already taken place.

Dave:

Tom, I have debated some of these people.

Tom:

Gary DeMar.

Dave:

Yes, and Gary North and I think with Tommy Ice, I had a debate with Gentry, as well.  I don’t know whether it has been offered but it was recorded, as I recall, many years ago.  It doesn’t make sense.  Let’s just go back to Matthew 24, first of all because they claim that the entire Olivet Discourse has been fulfilled, it was fulfilled in AD 70, and that Nero was the Antichrist.  But all you have to do is read what Jesus says in Matthew:24:22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
See All... that if those days were not shortened no flesh would survive.  You don’t wipe out all flesh with bows and arrows and swords and spears.  There was absolutely no danger of all flesh being wiped out in AD 70.  This was a little local war here centered around Jerusalem and so forth.  So, that doesn’t fit.  You go on until you get to verse 30 or thereabouts and it says, “immediately after the tribulation in those days the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give us light and it goes on.  He will send his angels; you will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great glory.  He will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds,” and so forth, on and on it goes.  But that did not happen in AD 70, and so what they have to do—let’s go to Revelation.  Well, we have this man who arises, the Antichrist, 666 is his number, he controls all banking and commerce, and they make an image to him.  That image is put in the temple, that image speaks.  Or, just go back to chapter 6 in Revelation.  A quarter of the world’s population is killed, the rivers turn to blood, the mountains are knocked down, and the islands are moved out of their place.  We can on and on and on, Tom and it didn’t happen in AD 70.

Tom:

Well, if it did, Dave, let me throw this in.  They would say, then we are in the millennium, Jesus is ruling and reigning.

Dave:

Well, they do say that.

Tom:

And Satan is bound. So, what’s the problem?  You look around and you think, wait a minute; Jesus is doing a very good job here.

Dave:

Some of them even say we are in the new heavens and the new earth.  If this is the new heavens and the new earth, or this is the millennium and Jesus is reigning, some have Jesus reigning from heaven; he doesn’t come to earth to reign.  But the Bible clearly says His feet will touch the Mount of Olives and so forth.  So, what you have to do, Tom, in order to make this work you have to spiritualize everything away.  These people even dare to say that Jesus returned in the presence of the Roman armies to destroy Jerusalem.  So then, what happens is, Israel is no longer part of God’s plans.  But we have hundreds of promises in the Old Testament that God would preserve his people, that he would bring them back to their land and that the Messiah would rule over them.  He would come and rule over his people Israel on the throne of (his father David).  He never did that in AD 70.  This is obviously a future; furthermore, II Thessalonians 2 says you know what prevents him from being revealed in his time, that is, the Antichrist.  It says that this wicked will be revealed whom the Lord—and he’s going to do all, he has all satanic power to do signs and wonders, whom the Lord will destroy with the brightness of his coming.  That didn’t happen in AD 70.

Tom:

Dave, this person who writes to us mentions Kenneth Gentry and a few people, I’m sure, know that name, of our listeners and they may have heard Gary North and I don’t think they know Gary DeMar, but one name many of our listeners would know is R. C. Sproul.  Now, he is a preterist.  Let me quote you from his magazine.  He says, “I am convinced that only within the framework of a moderate preterist position can we escape the devastating assault of the critics.  This is why I have written The Last Days according to Jesus.”  In this book he really lays out his position as a Preterist.  Now, the scripture that he deals with—this is the scripture that pushed him in this direction—when Jesus said, “This generation shall not pass away until all these things come to pass.”  And, he’s saying, look all of this had to have taken place or Jesus is a false prophet.

Dave:

Tom, there are three possible definitions of generation.  The generation to whom he was speaking, the people that were alive at that time, it is very clear that it didn’t happen because I just told you all the things that didn’t happen.  Then, some people said, well, it’s the generation that sees Israel back in their land.  I never believe either of those two.  Well then, how long is a generation, forty years, a hundred years, are we going to wait around?  No, Jesus uses that term.  He says, “A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after signs.”  He spoke of a disobedient, rebellious, gainsaying generation and I believe it is very clear from scripture that that is the generation that did not pass.  In other words, some Jews will be saved but this is the time of the Gentiles and Israel as a whole, will not be saved until all is fulfilled.  An unbelieving generation will continue.  Zechariah:12:10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
See All... says, “They will look on me whom they have pierced and then all Israel will be saved.”  That is when everything has been fulfilled and that’s when it will happen.  And, that fits the picture very well and covers all the problems and I believe this is what the Bible teaches.