Signs of the Times in Song with Trevor Baker, Part 1

Gary: Welcome to Search the Scriptures 24/7, with T.A. McMahon, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. I’m Gary Carmichael. Thanks for tuning in! In today’s program, Tom is joined by his guest, Trevor Baker, as they discuss the topic: Signs of the Times in Song.  And now, here’s Tom.

Tom: Thanks, Gary. For this and next week’s program, we’re going to listen to and have conversation with a man who ministers in song. And by ministering, I’m not talking about music that necessarily puts a person into an enjoyable mood, or entertains – although that could happen or not happen. My guest is Trevor Baker. He’s a singer, songwriter, and musician. Trevor, welcome to Search the Scriptures 24/7.

Trevor: Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Tom: Trevor – the reason I said that Trevor’s music may not always be enjoyable is because his lyrics – well, sometimes they bring conviction as well as point out false teachings in the church, which doesn’t go down well in some cases. And that’s the effect that truth – the truth – can have on a person or fellowship. When I read the psalms, for example, sometimes it’s pure bliss, and other times I’m so convicted by what I’ve read that my flesh is not happy with it. So, Trevor, give our listeners your background, and tell us how the writing that you do – how it came about.

Trevor: Okay, well, I group up on a small farm and wasn’t a church-going person. My dad stuttered really bad from nerves – he’d been beat up and locked in rooms and what not. I had three uncles who were alcoholics, and so I didn’t have a lot of hope in my life. And then my best friend took his life when he was 20, and I almost followed him.

I met a preacher at a small wedding. He touched my heart. I was twenty-two, and he was just a soft-hearted man. I went to see him, and (making this short and sweet here), but I cried all the way home on my steering wheel, saying, “God, who are you? I want what that man has.”

Five years later, in my late twenties – I probably cried more in my late twenties than any time in my life. I wanted to tell people about the Lord, but I thought I was a failure.  And I was sure I’d turn people from God, and I said, I’ll just be quiet. I’ll go away. And through that time, I guess God gave me a gift. He gave me a way to communicate. I wasn’t asking for it. I was twenty-seven, I picked up a guitar, I took three guitar lessons, and it was just to put the kids to bed at night.

At twenty-nine, I had laryngitis for four days. I had never had it my life before or since. But my voice changed after that. My wife could sing. I never could sing before that. I was always off tune. And she noticed that my voice changed. So I guess God “fixed” something during those four days.

A year later, God started to give me songs, and I just wouldn’t stop after that. The beginning years, my songs were mostly outreach songs that boiled down to “God helped me. He can help you.” And I sang at a lot of fairs. I worked as a relief milker on farms; I gave out my CDs to farmers all over the place, and I sang at local fairs, and they put me in the beer tent, and I’d sing gospel music.

And then God told me to leave that – it was seven years later, and I was thirty-eight years old – and go on the road! And I began singing songs somewhat to do with our country at that point. You know, our country has lost its way. And after about five years of that, in 2000 – well, four years or so – 2003-2004, I started to notice things in the church. One example, I guess, would be…I was in a small church one day, and I was walking around praying, nervous, as I always am before I singing, and as I went by the front of the church each time, I noticed the pastor’s briefcase. And then I glanced down at it and looked at it once, as I passed by. And in the middle, almost framed, like a trophy, was a book called The Purpose Driven Life. And so I started…I was noticing these things everywhere, but I didn’t know who to talk to. I felt like I had no one to talk to. And so I had no songs…the Lord never gave me any songs from 2004-2007, which had never happened before. I was always getting songs! It was like the well went dry, and I guess…my thought was, “that’s all I’ll need.”

And then in 2007, I got enough songs in two months for two CDs, and it was all about what’s happening in the church, and them leaving, I guess, the roots of the simple faith and following a lot of new angles, I guess you’d call it. If that answers your question?

Tom:  It does! And, Trevor, you know, we’ve had conversations before, and you’re familiar with The Berean Call, and, as you know, I’ve had the privilege of working with Dave Hunt for almost four decades, and you, and from what I’ve read, looking at the lyrics  in some of your songs, it’s very similar to what we do, but it’s absolutely a joy to hear somebody bringing this out – bringing some of these issues that you have. And, folks, we’re going to get into…we’re going to play some cuts from his CDs, and you’ll hear it. The point being that it’s almost like having someone who sings (at least to me personally) what The Berean Call’s about – and other ministries out there who are concerned about what’s happening in the church. Obviously, the Lord was concerned about it. The first, second, and third chapters of Revelation; Jude, for example; most of the – well, pretty much all of the New Testament epistles deal with what you’re singing about.

Now, Trevor, I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but early on in the history of the church, when many of the people were illiterate, one of the ways that they could communicate false teachings – and this is what I’m talking about – false teachings, was they would have these minstrel guys go out, whether you call them troubadours, or whatever they might be, they spread false doctrine, false teachings. And as I look over the music scene today – and I could name names and groups and so on – well, for example, Jesus Culture. Young people love this. This is out of Bethel in Redding, California. Well, I think they have their own church now. But Jesus Culture promotes in their lyrics false doctrines, false teachings – we’re going to take over the world, Christians are going to take over the world, and so on. The point being, when I listened to your CD, I thought, Oh, man, we’ve got somebody on our side who’s doing this!  And, I don’t know, there are many contemporary music groups, and so on, but honestly, Trevor, I don’t know anybody who’s doing what you’re doing, and I’m thrilled to have you on – not only have you on this program, this interview – but, folks, Trevor’s going to be with us in August for The Berean Call conference, which is the last weekend in August, so I’m just thrilled with that!

Now, having said what you said, Trevor, how do you handle negative responses to your songs as a performer? And I’m sure that you don’t see yourself especially that way, you know, as a performer, yet you are standing in front of an audience, so how do you handle those who aren’t thrilled with what you’re singing?

Trevor: Well, you have a breakdown (laughing). All joking aside, yeah. That was 2007 I started singing those songs, and in 2009, yeah, I had a burnout. I didn’t know what was wrong with me, but I collapsed. I couldn’t…I was in a fog. God brought someone into our life – a little old lady called one day, a praying grandma, that had never been to a concert even! But somebody gave her one of my DVDs, and she got to the point where she said, “You must not stop.” And she prayed for us, and that helped me. I had never had anyone approach me like that and encourage me! And I’ve had my moments. I have some humor in me, but I’ve had a lot…there’s been a lot of lonely moments, and quite a few tears. And God meets you in those lonely places, and He…like only He knows how to do.

Tom: Right. Well, and again, there’s so much I can identify with, and others who have been trying to minister the truth – and you’ll see when you come to our conference, it’s almost like an oasis. People come from all over the world to this conference just for the fellowship! Just because they think they’ve…the reactions they’ve gotten for just standing fast, standing firm for the truth, and then to find brothers and sisters of like minds – to them it’s refreshing! It’s like an oasis. And that’s just one of the terrific things about our conference.

Now, Trevor, I’m sure our listeners aren’t familiar with your songs. And based on what we’ve said, they’re a little curious as to what might be in your music that’s of a controversial nature.

So what I want to do is play a cut from one of your CDs. The song is “I Don’t Play Well.” And, again, folks, it’s written and performed by Trevor Baker. So, Gary, do you want to run that?

Music (lyrics): Well, I passed that tractor-trailer out on Highway number 1,

                        As I turned my head, I read the words he’d painted just for fun.

                        I’m quite sure he was joking when he ordered up that sign,

                        But I liked his little slogan, ‘cuz it fit my life just fine.

                        He said he was a misfit. Now, that’s surely counts me in,

                        The nurses may have messed up; hey, this guy might be my twin!

                        He went on, then, to define the word, and it kind of went like this:

                        “I don’t play too well with others; I don’t swim with all the fish.”

                        Now, that’s sorta been my motto since the Lord redid my life.

When they say “Jump,” I don’t say “How high?” Who needs the next thing down the pike?

This world has got its sales pitch, and the church is on the take.

Now, they can paint it up real pretty, but a fake is still a fake.

No, I don’t play too well with others, when their heart is not in sync.

They say they’re “sisters” and they’re “brothers,” but I don’t like the way they think.

This world ain’t got no polish, and the church has lost its shine,

They may steal the hearts of others, but they sure ain’t gettin’ mine.

Now, I’ve watched all their commercials, and they only make me yawn, While most of those around me sign right up to be a pawn.

In the circus, they train monkeys. That’s okay if that’s your bag,

But this old dog don’t do no tricks, my tail ain’t gonna wag.

They say, “Drink?” I’ll ask for water; don’t need no tickets I can scratch.

I’ll take an evening walk with God over some preacher selling tracts.

When I need new marching orders, I’ll just go right to the Source.

Puttin’ man in front of God is like the cart before the horse.

No, I don’t play too well with others when their heart is not in sync.

They say they’re sisters and they’re brothers, but I don’t like the way think.

This world ain’t got no polish; and the church has lost its shine.

They may steal the hearts of others, but they sure ain’t gettin’ mine.

They can live the dreams and money, and their scales might really tilt,

But like what happens to old flowers, given time, they’re gonna wilt.

And those fancy-dancy know-it-alls who peddle God for gain,

Well, they’re never gettin’ my vote, ‘cuz the Lord gave me a brain.

So, I’m glad dear Mr. Trucker took the time to paint that sign,

‘Cuz I was feelin’ kinda beat up as I crossed that yellow line.

He reminded me of who I am, and just what lane I’m in.

I think it’s called “The road less traveled.” And that’s how it’s always been.

No, I don’t play too well with others, when their heart is not in sync.

They say they’re sisters and they’re brothers, but I don’t like the way they think.

This world ain’t got no polish, and the church has lost its shine.

They may steal the hearts of others,

But they sure ain’t gettin’ mine.

No, I don’t play too well with others.

Got better things to fill my time.

Tom: Trevor, to put what you wrote – what we just heard – in direct biblical terms, one needs to only be reminded of the words of Jesus speaking about His disciples: He said, “They’re not of the world, even as I am not of the world.” Or we could add Paul’s words to Titus describing believers as a “peculiar people.” So, if we fit in with the world, we’re going to be alienated from God. To me, it’s as simple as that. Is that that way you see it?

Trevor: Yes. I think…that song came about on one of those actually tear-y weekends of a long drive to concerts, and I felt like I don’t fit in with the world, and I felt like I don’t fit in with the church. Because people sometimes even in the discernment crowd, they’d come up and they’d say, “Have you made the big time yet?” And comments…and I thought, Does anybody…why do people not get it? I thought this was “abc’s.” And you get real lonely.

You know, you’ve heard it said before, but this was literally in a beat-up old hotel room on Saturday night on that weekend, I think that God was trying to give me just a little bit of backbone, in some way, without being…I’m not trying to be rude in the song. It was just the Lord…it’s like, I don’t fit in, but I’m not the first one. There’s been thousands down through the years. And I came to grips with that that weekend, I think. It’s okay to be a misfit. It’s okay.

Tom: Yeah. Well, again, Trevor, that’s why we pray for you. I know you’re out there, and I’ve seen some of the places where you’ve been asked to minister before – some really good places, and I’m sure you’ve been greatly encouraged. But on the other hand, you just never know. As I said earlier, that's been my experience out speaking in different places. Sometimes maybe they overwhelm you with their praise, and then somebody comes along and…BOOM! You think, Wait a minute! Were they even paying attention to what I had to say? Or, in your case, to what you’d just sung – the lyrics. That’s why it’s so important to me – and I can’t wait for you to be at the conference, because we’re going to put those lyrics…not only will we hear you perform the music that the Lord put on your heart, but we’ll see the words right up on the screen. That’s going to be great.

Now, I want to take you folks to another song that Trevor wrote. Well, Gary, let’s put this one on. It’s called, “If Tombstones Could Talk.”

Music (lyrics): The subject is taboo; it’s seldom spoken of.

Mostly we just speak of lovely things that are above.

But Jesus said the pathway there is broad,

Many go there once they’re buried ‘neath the sod.

The biggest lie conceived – the one the devil loves to tell

Is that there really isn’t any place that we call hell.

It’s just for movie scripts that have that plot

Or jokes that say you might go there and rot.

But if tombstones could talk, I wonder what they’d have to say.

Would they know which ones went up, which ones went the other way?

Most think heaven’s where they’ll hang their hat in the best house on the block.

But those stories just might change if tombstones could talk.

I know it’s just a hunk of rock that words are written on.

But they never leave the gravesite once our body’s dead and gone.

And if they could, I wonder what they’d hear.

And would it give us all a healthy dose of fear?

The preacher said some lovely things the day your neighbor passed.

But that marble slab that stands there might be sayin’, “Not so fast – That lost soul underneath me wasn’t found,”

And those weren’t peaceful rumblings in the ground.

If tombstones could talk, I wonder what they’d have to say.

Would they know which ones went up, which ones went the other way?

Most think heaven’s where they’ll hang their hat in the best house on the block.

But those stories just might change if tombstones could talk.

Uncle Harry had a tender heart his brothers loved to mock.

But when they died, I’m certain, they were in for quite a shock.

And now old Harry’s up there looking down,

While his brothers found the hottest spot in town!

Now most of us are grown – big enough to face the fact:

Where we’re going when we die hinges on the way we act.

What you choose in life may cost your soul,

And in hell you’ll never get out on parole.

Not many give their lives to Jesus, like the song that they select.

I suppose “Amazing Grace” is played at funerals for effect.

Heaven might not be as crowded as we think,

And hell isn’t Party Central where we’ll raise another drink.

If tombstones could talk, I wonder what they’d have to say.

Would they know which ones went up? Which ones went the other way?

Most think heaven’s where they’ll hang their hat in the best house on the block,

But those stories just might change if tombstones could talk.

Tom: Now, that has a bit of controversy built in. More and more we’re being told in popular Christian books that there isn’t a place of permanent punishment – that hell is just a metaphor. I mean, if you listen to somebody like Rob Bell, or even of late, you know, whether you’ve read the book or been to the movie The Shack, they promote this idea. “Hey, come on, everybody gets to heaven. There’s no hell. There’s no Lake of Fire. Those are all metaphors.” Well, I don’t know what they’re metaphors for, but, folks those are real, and we need to be concerned about it.

And then, Trevor, one last thing about funerals – especially if you know the person who passed away had never received the Lord and may have been an incredible reprobate – you never hear a challenge to where they’re going to spend eternity. I can’t say “never,” but it’s never been in my experience. Everybody’s “all good,” you know, and “They were better people than they were bad people, and therefore it’s going to all work out.” Is that the way you see it?

Trevor: Yeah, well, the Lord gave me this at the end of the year – it was actually on Christmas Eve – and sometimes at the end of the year you’re kind of pulling yourself together after being away for so long – on the road, and I just needed some pondering time. And, yeah, that’s when this song came. And then after I wrote it down, you know, I looked at it and I said, “I can’t sing this song in concerts. I’ll probably just put it on CD,” because there’s no way I can introduce it. If you talk about hell, I’m going to sound like some guy that screams and yells, and tries to scare people. I was like, “What am I going to do with this song?” And yet, I decided to try singing it. And I was quite surprised, actually. In the first six months, I kind of took a tally, and it would be in the top three songs that people would talk to me about afterwards. So I guess there was enough in it, and it was hopefully gentle enough just to cause people to think. Do you really know where you’re going? It’s become almost a staple song, now.

Tom: See, that’s why I love the way the Lord works, you know? He puts thoughts, ideas…He gives us thoughts and ideas, and of course, our flesh may not be happy with it, but we’re obedient. And then we see Him working through these things, because, you know, on the one hand, people are a lot alike. And I love to talk to young people, and I want them to have a biblical understanding. I want them to think biblically. But sometimes we just want them to think, you know?

Trevor: Well, I have one little quote…somebody said years ago (I don’t know if I’m…I don’t want to flatter myself, or how this comes across), but somebody said, “Trevor sings songs that make people think, but he says them. Other people, they think them, but they don’t say them. And Trevor actually says them in his songs.” And maybe some people are actually waiting for...it’s almost like we live in a world of small talk. And even in the church sometimes.

Tom: Absolutely! Well, my guest is Trevor Baker, as you’ve heard. You’ve heard some of his music. He’s going to be with us at the conference in August here in Bend, Oregon. And we hope as many of you as can will come out for that. It’s going to be great.

So, Trevor, again, this is our first session. We’re going to be back next week, the Lord willing. So, Trevor, thanks for being with us on Search the Scriptures 24/7.

Trevor:  Ahh, well, thank you, Tom, for having me on. Honestly, I don’t think I’ve had a radio interview like this before. They’re usually always trying to promote me to stardom, and this is just talking about the nuts and bolts of what Christianity is about. I appreciate that. Thank you!

Tom: Trevor, it’s been our pleasure. God bless you, bro!

Gary: You’ve been listening to Search the Scriptures 24/7 hosted by T.A. McMahon, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. We offer a wide variety of resources to help you in your study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials and a free subscription to our monthly newsletter contact us at PO Box 7019 Bend, Oregon, 97708. Call us at 800.937.6638; or visit our website at the bereancall.org. I’m Gary Carmichael, thanks for being here, and we hope you can tune in again next week. Until then, we encourage you to Search the Scriptures 24/7.