Tom:
We’re continuing with the gospel of John and we are in 11:17.Now our encouragement, Dave, this segment of the program I particularly enjoy because there we are, right there in God’s Word.But I would encourage all of our listeners, if you’ve not read the Bible or you have sort of gone slack with regard to getting into God’s Word, get back into the Gospel of John.Begin there, read through that, then go on to Acts, then go to Galatians and Romans and so on, but this is a wonderful, wonderful book of the Bible, the Gospel of John:11:17Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already.
See All..., “Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already”—and of course, we are referring to the death of Lazarus,Verse 18, “Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:”How far is that, Dave?
Dave:
Tom, we’ve got to go back to verse 17.I don’t know how far 15 furlongs is, depends which book you read what a furlong was back there, but it was about supposedly, about an eighth of a mile, so less than 2 miles so it’s pretty close, but I’m not sure how accurate that is.But we’ll take the words of the experts, supposedly.But let’s go back to verse 17.“Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already.”Now that sounds like Jesus didn’t know that Lazarus had been in the grave and somebody had to tell him.Later on in the chapter, he says, “where have you laid him?”Again, it sounds like Jesus doesn’t know.Now he’s God, he knows everything.So what it really means is they inform him as far as they know—
Tom:
This is for our sake, not for the Lord’s.
Dave:
Right, but Jesus knows, in fact, he said, “He’s dead already.”We read that a few verses ago.Verse 14, “Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.”Just had to put that in there because some people, well, Jehovah’s Witnesses, for example, go to that verse and they say you see Jesus isn’t God, he didn’t know.Not true!He’s already told us that he knew.
Tom:
And of course, throughout the New Testament there is verse after verse directly teaching that Jesus is God.
Dave:
So we’ve got Bethany less than two miles from Jerusalem.
Tom:
Two miles would be the general understanding here.And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary to comfort them concerning their brother.Now a distinction here, by the Jews they are talking about the religious, not the religious Jews but those who would be part of the Sadducees, Pharisees and so on.
Dave:
And you know the way they comforted—weeping and wailing.They even had hired mourners, not in this case necessarily, but that was common because they really had no hope, they didn’t know.
Tom:
“Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him but Mary sat still in the house.”
Dave:
Now that’s interesting.Someone spotted Jesus coming—no doubt his progress is slow, people want to talk to him and they have run with great excitement to say to Martha and Mary, “Jesus is coming!”Now maybe Mary didn’t even hear, she sat still in the house.
Tom:
“Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.”She was the practical one, wasn’t she?
Dave:
Yes, and maybe a little bit of a complaint, “Lord, we sent word to you that Lazarus was sick, why didn’t you show up, why didn’t you come back?”
Tom:
Verse 22, “But I know that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.”
Dave:
Well Tom, it sounds as though she still has faith, that even though Jesus didn’t get there in time to heal him, maybe he could raise him from the dead.It doesn’t sound like she recognizes that Jesus is God, “whatever you ask of God, God will give it thee,” but Jesus knows what she is talking about.“Your brother will rise again.”
Tom:
Yeah, but she doesn’t understand what Jesus is saying and what he is saying has both a right now and present application as well as an eternal.
Dave:
Absolutely.He’s going to raise Lazarus from the dead, but Lazarus will die again.He will be raised in the resurrection at the rapture.
Tom:
“Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection and the life:he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:”
Dave:
“And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die, Believest thou this?”Tom, these are really interesting verses.
Tom:
Dave, they are extraordinary wonderful verses.Yesterday, day before this taping, I just attended a graveside service for a saint, for a believer in Christ and it was a glorious time.And we were grieved and we were sad for the loss here as I’m sure it was the same with Mary and Martha.But we understood what Martha didn’t understand and that is, our loved one was going to go on to the glory of God, be in the presence of the saints and in the presence of Christ himself.
Dave:
Had already gone.
Tom:
Absolutely.
Dave:
And would be raised from the dead.But when Jesus says, “I am the resurrection and the life,” he is saying there is no salvation, “there is no resurrection apart from me, apart from my having paid the penalty,”—well, he hadn’t done it yet—apart from my paying the penalty on the cross demanded by my own infinite justice.So, it’s always you get this phrase, through our Lord Jesus Christ.Paul begins an epistle, Grace be unto you and mercy from God our Father from the Lord Jesus Christ in whom we have redemption through his blood.It’s the only way that God could forgive us is because Christ paid the penalty and there is no resurrection apart from Jesus himself.So he says, “I am the resurrection and the life.”Now this, again, is very interesting.“He that believeth in me”—the only way you are going to be a participant in the resurrection, “he that believeth in me,” you have to believe in Christ.Now this is interesting, too, Tom, and I don’t want to seem to be hammering away at Calvinists, but it’s amazing.I find an application to Calvinism almost in every verse I read and we rarely mention it, but here it says, “Though he were dead—he that believeth in me, though he were dead.”We had it back in John 5, where Jesus said, “The hour is coming and now is when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and they that hear shall live.”A major argument of the Calvinist who says man is unable, an unregenerate person is unable to believe in Jesus, unable to hear the gospel, unable to have saving faith—
Tom:
Because they are dead in their trespasses.
Dave:
Right, they are dead in their trespasses and sins and therefore God must regenerate them first.A dead man can’t hear—wait a minute!A dead man can hear it says.I mean, of course, a dead man can’t sin so that doesn’t work for their theory.
Tom:
This is figurative language; we’re not talking about literally dead.
Dave:
Well, he’s talking about both.
Tom:
Well, you have to explain that one.
Dave:
Okay.In John 5, he’s talking about both.“The hour is coming and now is when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, they that hear shall live.”He’s talking about spiritually dead, then he says, “And the hour is coming when all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth,” okay?So, he’s talking about both and here he is talking, first of all, about those who are spiritually dead.“He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live and whosoever liveth, and believeth in me shall never die.”So, we have the promise of eternal life from Christ.
Tom:
Dave, let me get very basic, fundamental with this.Let me go over this verse by verse and you straighten me out on it.“He that believeth in me”—talking about a person, the person must be conscious, right?
Dave:
Yes, of course.
Tom:
You can’t believe unless you are conscious.“Though he were dead”—now that must be, refer to just being spiritually dead, can’t refer to somebody who is physically dead because they wouldn’t be conscious.
Dave:
No, the body is not conscious.Tom, I think you could take it both ways.I guess you would have to go to the Greek construction, see exactly what it is talking about—He that believeth in me though he were dead—a person who believed in me though he dies, yet he will live.Though he dies physically or he that believes in me though he is spiritually dead will receive spiritual life and it’s much clearer in John 5 where Jesus says, “The hour is coming and now is that the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and they that hear shall live.”Since he says now is, we know this is not referring to the physical resurrection in the future; it can only be referring to spiritual death.I think you could take it both here, Tom.
Tom:
No, that’s where I got thrown off a little bit.In the King James it says, “Though he were dead”—what it really means is, though he may die yet shall he live.
Dave:
I think it can be in both.Maybe a Greek expert would say oh no, this is the only way you can take it, but I have John 5 to back me up on that.Jesus has already said it.
Tom:
Dave, this is a good point.We need to wrestle through the scriptures.If we stumble over something we need to let scripture interpret scripture, so I’m not locked into a phrase here that I can’t figure out when other scriptures spell it out more clearly.I think that’s a wonderful exercise.It’s the only way, I think, you can go through the scriptures and really come to a right understanding of what they said by scripture interpreting scripture.
Dave:
And we know that he is also speaking spiritually because, the next verse, “Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.”He’s not saying you won’t die physically, but will not die spiritually and that is a promise of eternal life, eternal security, as well as the resurrection of the body.