T. A. McMahon & Ray Yungen (Part 2)

Program Description:

Tom welcomes back author Ray Yungen as they discuss some of the ways that yoga and other New Age practices are having tremendous influence on even Christianity today.

Transcript:

Gary: Welcome to Search the Scriptures 24/7, a radio ministry of The Berean Call featuring T.A. McMahon. I’m Gary Carmichael. We’re glad you could join us. In today’s program, Tom continues his visit with author Ray Yungen to discuss the impact of the New Age movement on today’s evangelical church. Now, along with his guest, here’s TBC executive director Tom McMahon.

Tom: Thanks, Gary. My guest for today’s program—this is the second part in a series I’m doing with Ray Yungen, and we’re dealing with Eastern mysticism. We’re going to major in this session—well, not major, but we’re going to deal with something that has infected the church in just a heavy way, and that is yoga—not just the church, but certainly the US. It’s incredible the growth that that’s had.

Ray is the author of two very valuable books, in my opinion: one is For Many Shall Come in My Name, and by the way, [his] name—if you’re looking for Ray’s books, you spell his last name Y-u-n-g-e-n, so you’re not looking for a Youngen or whatever. So the other book is A Time of Departing, and again, very valuable books dealing with issues that have infected Christianity in our day.

And Ray, again, welcome back to Search the Scriptures 24/7.

Ray: Glad to be back.

Tom: Ray, as I’ve just mentioned, we’ve been talking about Eastern mysticism, we talked about last week the New Age movement, which is one of the ways, the ideas of Eastern mysticism, Hinduism, yoga, all of those things have not only come into the US, but have come into the church, which is a super problem. But today, again, if you haven’t heard part one of the series, I recommend that you go to our website, thebereancall.org, and listen to it. It’s really a healthy—well, more than healthy, it’s just a very important piece of information regarding what is going on today.

Now, Ray, we mentioned yoga—a little background on that. You know, I grew up in a small town in southern Ohio, so this is back in the ‘50s and ‘60s, but incredibly, yoga was available for people who wanted to participate in it, and guess where? At the YMCA in our small town of Portsmouth, Ohio. That’s where you could go to take those classes. Now, again, YMCA—if I would mention YMCA to young people today, and say, “Well, what do you think those letters stand for?” I doubt whether a few could say, “Well, it’s the Young Men’s Christian Association,” because it’s been so identified with yoga, they think that must be part of those letters. Well, sadly, it is! But that’s not the way it started out. It was really a fine Christian organization that—well, actually going back to London, it was put together so that young men who were coming to London for work, it was an opportunity for them to get together and have Bible studies and so forth. So, wow! We have come a long way.

Now, Ray, what I’d like you to do is just give us some background: how did yoga become so popular here in the US?

Ray: Well, first of all, it has to be established that it is extremely popular, and that it’s grown tremendously. In 1992, I think it was Time or Newsweek—Newsweek did an article called “The Boomers Turn to Yoga,” you know, the baby boomers turn to yoga. And at that time, there were about 2 million people in the US that did yoga. Two million. Now the number has mushroomed to 20 million. Twenty million! And most of those are over the age of 18, you know, so they’re adults. So almost 10 percent of all American adults are doing yoga now; 77 percent of these are women. So yoga has become deeply embedded in most every aspect of American culture and society, specifically—not just yoga studios, but in fitness centers, in health clubs, in gyms, in retirement homes, you know, YMCAs, YWCAs, senior centers across the board, colleges, universities. In Portland, OR, probably something like 15 thousand students a year take yoga classes just through the community college system there. You know, yoga has become part and parcel of American culture.

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Ray: Now, the thing is, you mentioned that this is a problem for the church…

Tom: Well, Ray, before you go there—all right, so we’ve established this is growing, this is huge. I mean, you know, I remember when we moved to Southern California, lived in Santa Monica—we’ve been in Oregon for twenty years—but going back to Santa Monica, as we have family and relatives in Southern California, you couldn’t find a corner of the city of Santa Monica hardly—I’m talking about central, downtown Santa Monica—that didn’t have two or three not just yoga practices, yoga clubs, or exercise programs, but you have yoga fashion! I mean, everything is incredibly connected.

Now, all right, that being said, tell us what yoga is. Give us an understanding of yoga.

Ray: Yeah, many people probably think the word “yoga” is Hindu for exercise. You know, that’s a common misperception that yoga is just stretching to make you healthier, and that’s one of the major attractions to yoga that’s made it so popular is that it promises you a more flexible, slender body, and usually when you see in magazines, fitness magazines, when you see people doing yoga, they’re very attractive. Also, when you see people doing the meditation in the lotus position, usually it’s a young woman in her 20s or maybe 30s, and she’s very thin and, you know, looks very glamorous, so that’s the attraction is it’s going to make you healthier and perhaps sexier. What people need to understand is that the word “yoga” means “union,” like being united with something, being connected or bound to something…

Tom: Yeah, “yoked” would be another term…

Ray: Yeah, yoked—yeah, yoga, yoked, the words are almost similar, you know, like hooking up horses to a carriage or whatever. And what that something is is the Hindu concept of god—you know, Brahman. In fact, at the beginning and end of every yoga class—now this is, I don’t know if this is done in, like, fitness clubs, most likely, but certainly in yoga studios, the teacher will put her hands together in like a prayer type thing, and bow and go “Namaste,” and the students will do the same thing at the beginning and end of every yoga class. This is like one of the rituals, and what that means is, “The god in me bows down to the god in you.”

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Ray: Now I want to read—this is from a book called Yoga and the Quest for the True Self, and I’m going to read this and then I’m going to compare this to what Christianity teaches. Now what I’m about to read is not just some maverick or some—just one guy’s opinion, you know. Like certain movements can be somewhat eclectic or multi-faceted, you know, with different opinions. Now what I’m about to read is the basic philosophy of yoga. If you go to any yoga studio, any yoga teacher, and ask them, “Is this true?” they will say, “Yes.” And I think you’ll recognize that, Tom.

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Ray: Anyhow, the author says, “We are all born divine. This is the classic statement of the perennial philosophy of yoga.” Well, anybody who knows Christianity very well knows that, in essence, that’s the opposite of what the Bible teaches. We are all born disconnected from God by our sin natures, right?

Tom: Right. Absolutely.

Ray: So right off the bat, you know, “We are all born divine.” Again, “what we are seeking is already at the core of our nature. We are already inherently perfect.” Well, in essence, again, that is total rejection of the Christian gospel, because that’s why Jesus died for our sins. That’s why He went to the cross, because we are not inherently perfect; we are inherently imperfect. Okay, the next one: “It means that God is available fully at each moment simply because God is our true nature.”

Now, that dovetails perfectly with what Lucifer said: “I will be like the Most High. I will be like the Most High.” So that places yoga within the realm of satanic philosophy…

Tom: Correct.

Ray: …at its essence. It has nothing to do with, you know, pitchforks or horns or anything like that. “I shall be like the Most High.” And here we have, “God is our true nature.” See, if God is your true nature, you don’t need the cross; you don’t need the blood of Jesus for your justification, because God is your true nature. To me it’s as simple as that.

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Ray: Okay, Alice Bailey, who actually coined the term “New Age,” the famous occult prophetess who channeled quite a number of books on this “coming Age of Aquarius,” actually talked about yoga. She said, “The yogi, or the one who has achieved union (for yoga is the science of union), knows himself as he is in reality. He knows himself to be, past all controversy, God.”

And that is what yoga is all about: that humanity is divine, and you have to link, or yoke, with your inner divinity through meditation. You know, yoga and the stretching and meditation are supposed to go together. In fact, even in fitness club—there’s a local fitness club here in the town I live in, and this fitness center has five different locales, and in their literature on their yoga classes it says, “Mind-body emphasis.” Mind-body emphasis, which means they teach meditation, also, not just the poses.

Tom: Ray, let me just add to that. You know, at one time, I interviewed Caryl Matriciana, who did a terrific—she produced a terrific video called Yoga Uncoiled, and Caryl grew up in India. I remember she was at our dinner table, and some of my kids were there—my kids were in their 20s—and she explained to them that no one that she knew who was a Hindu, they wouldn’t practice yoga until they were later in their years, whether 50s or 60s or whatever, and the reason being, she explained to my kids, was the yoga is not for health. It’s for death, it’s for dying, it’s for getting ready to either be reincarnated or going through the next stage of their life, that they’re dying to this world, dying to their bodies, and so on. It’s incredibly, as we’ve said, we’ve said in the last program, experiential. It’s spiritual/experiential.

Now, I want to talk about the popularity, the growth, the incredible growth, of this movement, of yoga in the US. Ray, let’s go back to the Beatles, okay?

Ray: Okay.

Tom: They’re looking for some higher reality. Even John Lennon said they were “more popular than Jesus,” but they were looking for a higher god. And their guru was Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, so that put him before the world in terms of a spiritual leader. And then he came to the US with his form of spirituality, which he called the “Spiritual Regeneration Movement.” Now, Ray, as you know, because of the Beatles backing him and so on, that became very popular, but the people who objected, they took him to court, because they tried to get this into schools, and because it was a religion, he got dismissed from that program. However…

Ray: Yeah, that was in the late ‘70s.

Tom: …Late ‘70s, and then he changed the name of the Spiritual Regeneration Movement to “transcendental meditation.” And now it was no longer religion, according to them (although it was pure Hinduism). It was no longer a religion - now it was a scientific way. And, I mean, the rest is history: not only did he open the door for himself, but he opened the door for all the other gurus, really, who were evangelists for Hinduism. We had here in Oregon just maybe a hundred miles from us…

Ray: Yeah, just north of Bend. [chuckles]

Tom: Yeah, so that was the guru with the '88 Rolls Royces, which is Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. But there were many others, those who influenced people in Hollywood and so on…

Ray: Oh yeah, there was Swami Muktananda…

Tom: Exactly.

Ray: …who initiated hundreds of thousands into priya yoga. There was Sri Chinmoy; there was Swami Vivekananda, who spoke to half a million people at Woodstock…

Tom: So what we have here, Ray, now we have the missionaries here on our turf homogenizing Hinduism so that it would become more acceptable to Americans. Now, having said that, what happened? I mean now let’s go to yoga and the practice of yoga, and let’s move into various forms of meditation, which I know you want to talk about. So pick it up from there.

Ray: Yeah, yoga and meditation are virtually synonymous. That’s what you do…See, you’ve heard of the eight limbs of yoga?

Tom: Go ahead, mm-hmm.

Ray: It goes back, I think, a thousand years. There was this individual in ancient India who formulated yoga and said there were eight limbs to it, and I’m glad you brought this up. This is very important; what I’m about to say is very important to your listeners. Now, remember I talked about Borders? Before…

Tom: Mm-hmm, the bookstore.

Ray: You know, I was always researching. I would go to the Sports and Fitness section of Borders, okay? Not the Religious section—not the Religious section, the Sports and Fitness section, and usually there would be anywhere from like 4-6 shelves on yoga. You know, very popular, extremely popular. And there would be literally scores of books on it, and most of these—practically all of these—had something to do with improving your health.

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Ray: Hardly any of them had anything in the title that had to do with, you know, religion—“Become a Hindu,” or, “An Introduction to Hinduism.” It was always on improving your spine or being more relaxed or…

Tom: Or flexible.

Ray: …something to do with health. Virtually every one of these, like 97 percent—when you look through them, you would find a whole page with the chakras—a whole page. And then they would have the various chakras, and they’d have their functions, and you would find terms like “Samadhi,” “kundalini,” “self-realization,” “super-consciousness,” and these were all the very core of Hinduism. These terms were the very essence of Hinduism. But yet they were in the Fitness section, and these books were on how to become healthier, and I thought that was very significant, because people were being drawn to yoga because of what they thought would make them healthier, and being better able to cope with the stresses of life. But in essence, they were being led straight into the religion of the chakras. Now, some of your—perhaps most of your listeners don’t know what chakras are. Well, chakras in yoga are the so-called “energy centers.” They’re not physical; you can’t cut somebody open and see their chakras. They’re like on the—called the “subtle body.” And when one meditates, which is what you’re supposed to do in yoga, these energy centers are activated by this spiritual energy called the kundalini, or serpent, energy that goes surging up the spine, and this is the essence of what we’re talking about: mysticism. And you can go to any yoga teacher and ask them about chakras and kundalini, and they will say, “Yeah, that’s what yoga’s all about. Yoga is about activating this subtle energy.” And this subtle energy will go surging up the spine, activating these chakras, okay? The top two chakras are why Christianity can never be compatible with yoga: the sixth chakra, called the third eye chakra, when that one opens, you have psychic powers, clairvoyance, etc., etc. And Deuteronomy 18 specifically condemns that. But when the seventh chakra opens, the crown chakra, that is the most blasphemous, because when that one opens, you have self-realization; you know that you are divine, that you are God—that you are God. And that is why, you know, to all the people listening, yoga can never be compatible with Christianity, because in Christianity, simply man—or Judaism, for that matter—man is not God.

Tom: Right. Ray, as we talked earlier before we started recording, you have a great concern about reiki as a form of mysticism. Explain that to us.

Ray: Okay, reiki is a—basically is something called energy healing, and this may sound crazy to a lot of your listeners—in fact, I’ve had people actually refuse to talk to me anymore, because they thought it was like believing in Big Foot or UFOs, but reiki is where someone will actually channel energy into a person. Actually, it’s—again, it’s based on the chakras. You go to a reiki master, they activate the chakras, and then you have this ability to send this—what basically would be kundalini energy into other people, and Hinduism is called shaktipat. You’re familiar with that, right?

Tom: Yes.

Ray: Well, anyhow, I want to make it clear that…

Tom: Well, I am, but let me explain. [chuckles] Shaktipat is like—sometimes in the…Well, it’s laying hands on somebody and pretty much inducing a power within them. Sometimes it’s done with a peacock feather, whatever it might be. Go ahead.

Ray: Well, with reiki, it’s generally their hand, and they don’t actually have to put their hands on you, they can just put their hands above you, and they channel this energy. And I have some quotes. This is from a book called Essential Reiki. Okay, the reiki guide, or a group of discarnate—that means nonphysical—healers that take part in every reiki healing. The reiki one practitioners—probably not aware of them—but with reiki two, they begin to make themselves known. In reiki three, they are running the whole show. In Reiki News magazine, one practitioner says, “During every attunement ceremony,” and that’s how you get reiki, you’re not taught it, you’re attuned by a reiki master, “I am always aware of the presence of my reiki guides.” Okay, this is a master in Portland, OR, you know, in our neck of the woods here, and she says, “I’ve worked with as many as 20 spirit guides during my reiki treatments. They are my spiritual family. Many reiki practitioners can feel the presence of their reiki guides.” So…

Tom: Mm-hmm. Now, Ray, for people who think, “Oh, man, I’ve never heard of this thing,” you told me on the phone the other day that you checked out Bend, OR—small city in Central Oregon—well, maybe we’re around 80 thousand right now—how many reiki practitioners did you say you thought were here?

Ray: Well, based on—see, I’ve been researching this for 30 years, and I was in Bend in 1994, and I was told—I was at a New Age bookstore, and I was told there were 70 reiki channelers then.

Tom: Wow.

Ray: There was only one reiki master in town, only one, and I assume that she kept initiating people through the ‘90s, and then I checked around 2000-01, and there were four reiki masters. A master is someone who initiates you; you have to be initiated by a master. Then there was a woman in Redmond about that time who started—she was advertising extensively, and she was a reiki master, and she initiated people. So to be extremely conservative, I estimate that up till like 2005, these people initiated maybe 200 reiki channelers in Central Oregon. It could have been a lot higher, but I’m being conservative. I estimated 5-700 reiki channelers in Bend based on what happened. I don’t have time, but in the US, 2 million reiki channelers now. Two million. That’s the population of Oregon in 1970, and I got that from the International…The Presence, the magazine for the International Center—or no, I’m sorry, the Spiritual Directors International. I got that from their magazine: 2 million reiki channelers.

Tom: Wow. Ray, earlier, last segment, we talked about your book, upcoming book, and it’s still a work in progress, so it’s not available now…

Ray: A work in progress.

Tom: …but we will keep our listeners informed when it’s available, and we’ll look forward to it. So, Ray, as I said, there are a lot of other things that we could cover, but the only way we’re going to do that is to have you back in the near future. So thank you, Ray, for your participation, and we just pray the Lord will cover you as you do this research and make it available for the body of Christ.

Ray: Well, thank you for the opportunity, and God bless you.

Gary: You’ve been listening to Search the Scriptures 24/7 featuring T.A. McMahon, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. We offer a wide variety of resources to help you in your study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials and a free subscription to our monthly newsletter, contact us at P. Box 7019 Bend, OR, 97708. Call us at 800-937-6638, or visit our website at the bereancall.org. I’m Gary Carmichael. Thanks for tuning in, and we hope you can join us again next week. Until then, we encourage you to Search the Scriptures 24/7.