Will Democracy Ever Work In Iraq?

In this regular feature Dave and Tom respond to questions from listeners and readers of The Berean Call.Here is this week’s question:Dear Dave and TA,Do either of you see any hope for a democracy in Iraq, given the hostile religious entities that are continually killing one another, as well as the troops there that are trying to help them?

Tom:

Dave, you know, we’ve talked about this for a long time, even before we did the series on Judgment Day, but the religious mentality, the ideologies, if you can call it that, the philosophy, whatever, of the people there historically, goes back centuries.Now you have Sunnis killing Shiites, vice versa along with the troops, you have Shari ‘a, Islamic law. Prior to us going into Iraq you had Saddam Hussein, ruling as a dictator with an iron fist, keeping people in such fear, massacring people.

Dave:

Well, he was a Muslim.

Tom:

Right.So, I don’t see it, Dave.You know, we never have, unless you have a different insight.I’m talking about democracy.

Dave:

Right, right, this is Bush’s hope and dream, but you can’t have democracy, not a true democracy, under Islam.The whole idea of Islam is not separation of church and state.Jesus is the One who defined that, He said:“Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s.”No, God and Caesar are one and the same under Islam, and I shouldn’t say God, Allah and Caesar are one and the same.So, the imam, he rules, you have to consult—like AyatollahKulmani, who took over Iran, they still quote him, this is religious rule, the opposite of the Communist’s rule which was atheistic rule.Now, where can you have democracy there?You can’t vote on what the Qur’an says, you can’t vote on what Muhammad said.Muhammad said, Allah has commanded me—I’m just quoting him verbatim now from the Sahid bukari hadith, “Allah has commanded me to fight against all people until all people confess there’s no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.”You’re not only not going to have peace in Iraq or Afghanistan or anywhere in a Muslim country.You are not going to have peace anywhere in the world because they must take over the world, that’s what terrorism is all about.The only way things could change would be if they would say, Wait a minute, there must be something wrong with Allah.How can he be the God we should worship when he promises people paradise for murdering innocent women and children?From blowing themselves up, committing suicide, and blowing themselves up?Now, that doesn’t make sense.

Tom:

Dave, just let me add to that.And now you have another problem.When the Sunnis kill the Shiites as a human bomb, when that person gets to Paradise, and on the other hand you have the Shiite killing the Sunnis.You see, that’s where it doesn’t make sense.I mean, which ones get the virgins, which ones gets the mansions because they are killing each other?

Dave:

Tom, you’ve got Sunnis blowing themselves up in Shiite mosques even in Pakistan, which you don’t read about unless you really search for the news, and Shiites blowing themselves up in the mosques of the Sunnis, and you raise a good point.Now, they are both thinking that Allah is going to reward them with paradise, with all these virgins and so forth, but wait a minute, that doesn’t make sense!But of course, Tom, nothing makes sense in Islam.

Tom:

No, man made it.

Dave:

But you’re not going to tell a Sunni, well, because a Shiite blows himself up and he thinks he’s going to Paradise, I’m not going to Paradise because I blow myself up killing Shiites.And you’re not going to convince a Shiite, Well, because Sunnis are also blowing themselves up killing Shiites, when I blow myself up killing a Sunni, you can’t tell me that that means I’m not going to Paradise because the Shiites are right and the Sunnis are wrong.Now, I don’t know if anybody can reason about that, you can’t do it rationally, but they still say, yeah, but we’re right and they’re wrong, no, no, we’re right and they’re wrong.So Tom, it raises a point that puts a shadow of doubt over Islam itself.Now, do they really get to Paradise from killing themselves?Well, we go into this in Judgment Day, and in fact, Issha, Muhammad’s favorite wife, she asked him—there’s a really tough passage in the Qur’an, and it sounds like everybody is going to go to hell.Well, if you don’t live up to the standards that Allah wants you to live up to, and you can’t really be sure what standard he wants you to live up to.But anyway, Allah is condemning people to hell in the Qur’an, and Issha says, Well, who was Allah talking about there?Is it just those people who don’t live good lives, those people who disobey him?And Muhammad said, No, even the ones that live the best life, they don’t know for sure whether they are going to make it or not.In fact, remember, Abu Bakr, his father-in-law, was the first one that Muhammad promised Paradise without dying as a martyr.What did Abu Bakr says?We quoted him in Judgment Day, Abu Bakr said:“Even if I had one foot inside of Paradise I couldn’t trust Allah, he might shove me out.”So, the whole thing is hopeless.You can’t be assured even if you blow yourself up and kill a bunch of people in, supposedly, jihad, that you’re going to really get to Paradise.It’s a very sad situation.

Tom:

How does that then work for democracy?

Dave:

Tom, something fundamental would have to change.They would have to admit Muhammad was a false prophet, the Qur’an is not the Word of God, Allah is not the true God, but as long as they cling to that, Islam itself will not allow true democracy.It doesn’t work in Saudi Arabia, that’s where it began, that’s where their holy sites are, try to get democracy going there!

Tom:

Dave, the closest place would be Turkey, and they’rehaving so much trouble right now because the imams, the rise of more militant, aggressive Islam is just pulling the rug out from under what they do have.

Dave:

And what you just called, more militant, aggressive Islam, is not fanatics, this is Islam as Muhammad taught and practiced it.