Tom: You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in way that is pleasing to Him.
We’re going through Dave Hunt’s book In Defense of the Faith, and, of course, the faith to which it refers, and that which we’re discussing, is the content of the Bible, which is God’s personal revelation to mankind—things He wants us to know about Himself, about us, our condition, His solution, and so forth.
The format of Dave’s book is primarily questions and answers, and we’re about to begin a series of questions related to the person and character of God.
Dave: Well, Tom, these are actual questions that have been addressed to me . . . who knows where? I have them in files, in letters, or maybe a challenge at a Q&A session where I’m speaking.
Tom: Yeah, and, Dave, the reason I really like the book—we do have a segment called Q&A, but here, through your book, we’ve got some continuity. We can develop some thoughts and ideas, not only with just one question but various questions related to the same issues. So I think it’s really great!
Now, Dave, here’s the first question: “Why are Christians so adamantly opposed to the many other concepts of God that are honored in other religions? Think of the unity there could be if religions would stop quarreling and honor all concepts of God in an open-minded and brotherly fashion?”
Now, Dave, before you answer that, I didn’t give the whole question, because they’re addressing former Vice President Al Gore, and, in particular, something that he said at the 1993 Presidential Prayer Breakfast. Let me quote that. “Faith in God, reliance upon a higher power, by whatever name, is, in my view, essential.”
Dave: Well, Tom, on the one hand, I can’t fathom anybody even asking such a question, and I cannot fathom Al Gore making such a statement! “Oh, wouldn’t it be wonderful? We could all unite around different concepts of God!”
Well, let’s take a couple of them. In Hinduism, you’ve got about 330 million gods. You’ve got the Monkey God, Hanuman. You’ve got the Elephant God. Of course, the whole idea is “Everything is god!” You’re God and I’m God. In Hinduism, the famous saying is “That thou art.” The goal of yoga is self-realization. To realize that Atman, the individual soul, and Brahman, the universal soul, are one. So, I’m God. You’re God. Everything is God.
Tom: So nothing is God!
Dave: That’s right. That’s got to be a joke, because is everything is God . . . So, but then we’ve got Allah. A single entity, okay? We want to get to that a little bit later, but I’m talking about . . . we’ve got all kinds of different concepts. You’ve got the gods of the Greeks, the Romans. And there is some difference between them. Now, if we’re going to unite around all these concepts of God, what it means is we really don’t honor any god. Any god will go, will do!
Now, if you want to be united around a lie . . . ! Now, the God of the Bible reveals Himself specifically, and He talks about the false gods, Baal and Molech, and so forth. Molech that they offered their children to! Are you going to join in your fellowship . . . we’re going to all get together, and these people have a concept of Molech, and we offer babies to Molech. Is that going to unite us? What do you mean by “united” like that?
Tom: Yeah, Dave, you mentioned in this chapter Allan Bloom, who wrote a book called The Closing of the American Mind. His book isn’t a religious book. It just deals with logic, with reason.
Dave: He’s a philosophy professor at University of Chicago.
Tom: Mm-hmm. Now, I’ll give you a quote from his book. He said, “Americans had, in fact, become so open to everything that they had become closed to the idea that something might be right and something else wrong.” That’s the major problem with what Gore is doing and what this person who writes the question is thinking.
Dave: Yeah, he says [that] in America, you wouldn’t say anything is wrong. You wouldn’t dare to say homosexuality is wrong. You wouldn’t dare to say that fornication or adultery is wrong. You wouldn’t dare to say anything is wrong because you might upset someone! You might shatter their fragile self-esteem. And, by the way, who are you to say that someone else is wrong.
So, now we’ve lost the truth of God. God has given Ten Suggestions, I guess, instead of Ten Commandments. We can have our ideas about God. We can have our ideas about right and wrong. Anything goes. And God is not allowed to have any opinions of His own!
So, we have some kind of a Silly Putty® God—you can manipulate and mold Him into any image you want, and He is not concerned about this? In fact, Jesus said, in John:17:3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
See All...: “This is life eternal, to know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.” And, John, in his first epistle, chapter 5, he said, “This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols.” And an idol is anything that pretends to be the true God—that masquerades as the true God. And, in fact, Paul says, in 1 Corinthians, chapter 10, he says, “The things that the heathens, the nations, offer to idols [we’ve got various idols—what they are offering to idols], they are actually offering to devils,” because these false gods are a front for Satan and his minions. And their whole goal is to take you away from the one true God. And if you don’t know God, you are lost forever!
Tom: Dave, I want to just back up to this approach to God. As you said, it’s sort of a Silly Putty® god, but we can’t even use the word “putty,” because it may be anything else. It may be whatever you bring to the table. For example, in Gore’s statement, he talks about a “higher power.” And this isn’t Gore alone. It could be 12-Steps programs, AA; it could be Masonic Temple, you know, just as long as you have a concept of God. Now, a higher power—what does that mean? Higher than what?
Dave: You tell me, yeah. Higher than what? What is the power? Is this electricity? Is this energy? Is this hydroelectric power? Power is unthinking and impersonal—a force, like the so-called Star Wars Force. It’s a joke! It’s amoral. It has a dark side and a light side. So far as we know, the Force itself doesn’t care which side you play. A force is impersonal. It could never, ever create man, with his personality! The God who created us would have to be at least as personal as we are. In fact, our thoughts, our concept of love and truth and justice and so forth, can only come from the God who created us in His image! You won’t find that in nature! Ever notice a sympathetic lion? Or a compassionate hawk? Tom! A little thinking . . . But I don’t think these people want to think, because they do not want to know the true God.
Now the true God says, “You will seek for Me, and find Me, when you seek for Me with all your heart.” But if you are seeking for a god of your own devising, or a god that you will feel comfortable with—a god that’s kind of like some kind of a cosmic bellhop, like a genie in a bottle, and you rub the lamp and here he comes and says, “At your service”— that’s the god most people want. This is not the God that made the universe. This is not the God who created us in His image! And gave man commandments and has a purpose and a plan for man’s life!
And, Tom, if we miss . . . Look, if God exists (and He does, there’s no question about it! You can’t explain the universe, much less man in any other way) . . . if God exists, and He created us for a purpose, and we miss that purpose, and He wants us to know Him, and we go through life and then die without getting to know Him, and without experiencing the purpose for which He created for us, it would be better that we had never been born.
Tom: Dave, I really want to hammer away at the irrationality of this, so that people who say, “Well, you’re just pushing your view of God, and there are other views of God out there. . . . ” Now, look, first of all, if there are many views of God, and they are different, and in many cases contradictory, they all can’t be true! So, where does truth come into this?
Dave: Tom, I’m not interested in people’s ideas about God, or concepts about God. That’s a joke! If God has not revealed Himself, then for the scholars or scientists or whoever it is, the religious leaders, to sit around and propose, “Well, I think this god, or that god . . .” No. Look, God has revealed Himself. He has revealed Himself in the Bible. We’ve been through this in past programs, but we probably have some listeners now that haven’t heard us. But, anyway, we can prove this! We prove it from the Bible. We prove it from prophecy. The Bible lays out prophecies concerning Israel, the Messiah . . . I mean, details! These are not psychic predictions. These are events that have shaped history. They were foretold thousands of years in advance by more than one prophet. They’re in black and white. They have been in black and white, and the whole world has witnessed their fulfillment.
Okay? We could go down the line. We can prove God exists. Now that is not true of the Qur’an. We talked about that. It’s got all kinds of ridiculous concepts. “The sun gets tired every evening and settles down in a slimy pit and Alexander the Great came and found it.” Or . . .
Tom: The Bhagavad Gita, the Mahabharata . . .
Dave: The Hindu Vedas—no! The Book of Mormon. Anything out there, they just reveal their pathetic poverty! They are not God’s Word! But the Bible proves that it is God’s Word.
Now, okay—so God has revealed Himself. Now, do I want to know the true God? Do I want to know who He really is? And His plan? Also, God has revealed—and we know it in our conscience; every human being knows in their conscience—that we have violated the laws of God. We have come short of God’s purpose and plan. Who would dare to say that this world is what God wants it to be? The suffering, the evil, and so forth. Who would dare to say, “In my life, I am everything God wants me to be.”
The Bible defines sin as “coming short of the glory of God,” and man was made in God’s image. So we have marred that image. We’ve defiled and corrupted it. We all know this. And so, the Bible reveals that’s a serious problem! And only God himself can bring about the reconciliation. You don’t sit down and negotiate with God: “Well, God, let me dialogue about this.”
Tom: Dave, let me get on, I think, a simpler track.
Dave: Okay, all right.
Tom: We have the God of the Bible, who reveals Himself through the Bible. And there are certain characteristics. He’s a personality. There are certain things He tells us about Himself. Now, this view, that you just need a higher power, or whatever concept you come up with or by whatever name, let’s apply that on a human level. For example, I’m a father. Suppose my kids referred to me as a generic “dad.” And I have five. Suppose they all came up with different ideas: “Oh yeah, Dad is tall.” “No, he’s thin.” “He’s short.” “He’s fat.” Whatever. And as they were explaining, and I got to overhear . . .
Dave: Well, “what does it matter, Tom”? I mean . . . it’s just a “concept of a dad.”
Tom: Yeah. Now, how do you think that’s going to make me feel, when I’ve got five kids, sort of sharing things with other people and trying to be accommodating and having unity and so on, but they’re making things up about me?
Dave: Tom, it’s beyond comprehension how any human being, any thinking person, could imagine that any concept of God would go. I don’t care what people think about God; what does God think about us? Are we going to sit around and talk about what we think God is, or what He ought to be? Wait a minute! If God—and we’ve said this before—if God has not revealed Himself to us, we are wasting our time.
Tom: Sure.
Dave: That’s why we call this program Search the Scriptures Daily. Now, if you can come up—any listener out there—we’ll challenge you: if you can come up with something that will prove that the Bible is not God’s Word, I would like to hear it. We’d like to hear from you. You cannot do that. And this book has been examined—I mean, I can take you to the Hindu Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita, all of these books, the Qur’an, and so forth—we can pull these books apart! They do not hold together. This is not God’s Word. And we’re not trying to insult anyone out there. We’re just . . .
Tom: It’s a challenge!
Dave: There are contradictions. There are unscientific statements in these books. The Book of Mormon, as we’ve talked about in the past—you can’t find a pin! They’ve scoured North, Central, and South America—you can’t find even the topography! The Bible—it has . . . there are mountains, literally mountains of evidence, in museums all around the world, that this book is telling you what really happened. It’s telling you the truth. God’s revelation to man.
Tom: You know, Dave, the thing that grieves me about it—somebody said, “Oh, they’re getting academic or theological here.” No. We’re talking about the personal God, the Creator of the universe, again, who reveals Himself through His Word primarily.
Now, Dave, He has characteristics—characteristics we can discern even without going to the Bible. We were talking about His . . . He’s infinite; He’s omnipotent; all you have to do is look at the universe. Look at the complexity in the human cell. We will discuss these things.
Dave: Infinite in wisdom and power.
Tom: Right. But my point here is that He is personal. And one of the things that I didn’t have before I came to know Jesus Christ was that you can have a personal relationship with the Creator of the universe!
Dave: Contrast Allah, who has 99 characteristics in the Qur’an—not one of them is love, and he is unknowable. The God of the Bible wants us to know Him. Now, there’s a big difference.
Tom: Right. Now, the sad thing is, people say, “Who are these guys on the radio? What are their credentials? Where are they coming from?” Now, my challenge here—we talked about challenging people to look at other sacred scriptures so-called, and compare them with the Bible.
But what about religious leaders? Back in 1985 you had the head of the Roman Catholic Church, Pope John Paul II, gathering all kinds of religious leaders to Assisi.
Dave: Yeah, 160 leaders from twelve major religions.
Tom: Okay. Now, you would expect, because he’s called the Vicar of Christ . . .
Dave: That’s what he calls himself.
Tom: Right. That’s one of his titles . . . that he would be championing the God of the Bible? But what does he do?
Dave: Well, you had snake worshipers, fire worshipers, spiritists, animists, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, North American Indian witchdoctors. We have a video that shows it, remember? A Woman Rides the Beast, and here comes one of these witchdoctors with his paint and feathers and fetishes, his rattles, you know, up to the microphone to pray to the Great Spirit for peace. And the pope said, “We are all praying to the same God, and our prayers are creating a spiritual energy that is bringing about a new climate for peace.” So, the pope is honoring this idea!
Tom: Yeah.
Dave: Any concept of God will go. Just so you call it “God.” This is actually contrary, and, Tom, this book titled In Defense of the Faith—you began by saying this is “the faith” that is laid out for us in the Bible. And Jude tells us we are to “earnestly contend for the faith.”
Now, Tom, it’s many, many years—wow, how many years would it be—over fifty years, since I got a degree in mathematics at UCLA. And I couldn’t remember anything hardly! But I know this: 2+2=4. It always was and it always will be. And if somebody says, “But that’s so narrow minded! Why don’t we let it be 5, at least on Thursdays, you know? I mean, wouldn’t that bring people together now? Some people don’t like this—2+2=4, 10x10=100.”
Tom: It’s narrow minded, Dave.
Dave: It is narrow minded. Why should it be so absolute? There should be NO absolutes—absolutely no absolutes? So, now couldn’t we have a broader concept of this? Maybe a broader concept of banking, for example. “Well, I’m still writing checks, but the bank says there’s no money in my checking account? Wait a minute! I’ve still got checks in my book. Why can’t I keep writing out checks? You’re just so narrow minded. You’ve got these . . .”
I do a lot of flying. I’ve got a ticket to a little kids’ ride over here in Bend at KidLand, or whatever they call it. Why can’t I present that to United Airlines, and why wouldn’t United Airlines let me aboard a flight to New York with a little ticket from the Matterhorn ride at Disneyland, or something? Tom! I’m sorry! I begin to lose patience because it is so obviously ridiculous! It doesn’t work in any area of life. Then, suddenly, when it comes to that which is most important—God—who He is, whether He has a plan or purpose, whether He has any ideas of His own, what our relationship to Him is supposed to be. Man’s eternal destiny—I mean, you’d think that would be important—more important than anything else. Suddenly, anything goes! “Oh, let’s not get narrow minded about this. I mean, there are all kinds of religions, and all kinds of concepts about God.”
Tell that to God someday when you stand before Him and say, “Woo, wait a minute! I had my own idea of God. Where did you come from? It doesn’t . . . Tom . . . well, I ‘m sorry . . . being redundant. It just is so absurd!
Tom: It is, Dave, and in my mind, what grieves me, personally, about this is that this isn’t rocket science here! We’re getting down to something very basic, something everyone should understand, but we’ve been deluded. We quoted Al Gore—but he’s not the only one. We quoted Pope John Paul II. There’s this idea that’s very much like the Emperor’s New Clothes, that all of sudden . . . we just hope people will wake up and say, “Wait a minute! That doesn’t make sense! How then should I live? What should I do?” They’ve got to get back to basics, to the God of the Bible, who He is, what He’s done for us, what He has in mind for us for eternity. These are wonderful things!
Dave: Let me quote Him again, Tom: “You will seek for Me, and find Me, when you seek for Me with all your heart.” If you seek for some other god, you want to mold God to your own liking? You want to seek some other god who will give you what you want and who has no ideas of his own, then you will not find the true God.
I would just challenge my own heart, and everyone that’s listening: Do you want to know the true God? Out of intellectual curiosity? Or in order to know who He really is and what His purpose and plan for your life is? If you will seek to know Him, the true God, you will find Him.
And I would just make a suggestion: you might start with John’s gospel, which we're studying. You might start with Genesis:1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
See All..., in fact, but go to Him in prayer and say, “God, I want to know you because I want to be the person you want me to be. Will You please reveal Yourself to me as I read Your Word?